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  • Janus100
    Janus100 closed this thread because:
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    04:08, April 5, 2019

    This is a topic I've wanted to talk about for a while now, but have been afraid to bring it up due to possible backlash. So here we go.

    After Lexa died there was this huge uproar of fans claiming Jason and the creators were anti LGBT. Now I will say her death was weak and should have been handled better having her go out as a warrior.

    Now my point is I don't think it's right how the fandom reacted. By crying out saying the creators are anti LGBT has hurt the show. How you might ask, well they've made it so that they can't kill off another LGBT character. For example characters like Bryan and Niylah who should be dead are either still alive or just faded away. Since Bryan's actor is on another show and most likely will never appear again the character should have died but instead he just vanished. Then there's Niylah a character who never contributes to the overall story and is just there for Clarke.

    However I want to go further on this topic because if look at the backlash the show got for killing off an LGBT character what happens when or if they kill off Jaha? Are fans going to claim the creators are racist? How about if Octavia dies this season are the creators sexist then?

    With the backlash the show got its making it or going to make it impossible for the creators to kill off characters which is why I believe a lot of the main cast is still alive. It's like the creators are walking on eggshells writing to make sure they don't offend anyone and receive backlash.

    In my opinion when this happens the show suffers because the creators can't tell the story they want.

    Leave your thoughts below and please stay civil.

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    • I think everyone is so over reacting.... It matters that a character died, not if it was lesbian, gay, black, white, poor, rich...... It's all bullshit. It shouldn't matter right? I strongly disagree by pulling Bryan and Niylah into this. Who says the creators don't let them die to avoid the discussion about killing another LGBT character? Not everyone has to die... maybe they have future storyline plans for them or maybe  Jonathan wants to return soon to play Bryan again? All I'm trying to say is that we should stop looking at every action they do and blame them for killing a LGBT character or someone who's black or white.

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    • I think the LGBT community were definitely overreacting it shouldn't matter what a character is. They are fake characters it's not Like they are really killing people.

      I know your a big fan of the Bryan and Miller and I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree. Looking at it logically Bryan's actor is a lead on another show which means he's probably too busy to just be a recurring character on the 100. Plus he's most likely being paid more on that show than he would if he was on the 100. Look what happened when ADC got lead on FTWD she was killed off most likely because she was too busy to stay on this show. Characters like Bryan, Niylah and Jackson aren't supposed to have big parts in the show they are mainly there to help develop characters like Miller, Clarke and Abby. Killing off Bryan would have been a good way to develop Miller after losing his dad and boyfriend he'd be broken it would have been interesting to see how he moved on.

      As for Niylah she's pretty much only there as someone for Clarke to sleep with pretty much a Lexa replacement. She's only been in a handful of episodes and never really ever contributes to the story of than her relationship with Clarke.

      Yes I completely agree we shouldn't blame them for killing characters just because they are LGBT or a POC, if the story fits and it's their time to go they should be able to kill them off.

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    • Okay I got you, and now I agree with you!

      You know, it's hard to be a Miller/Briller shipper because we always saw them together since season 3 and they just throw it away like it was nothing. Jonathan probably gets more payed for his new role and I don't blame him for it .... However, I blame the writers for not giving it a fully ending and now you say it, kill him so Miller could deal with that. We need to see more of Millers emotions because he just lost his boyfriend and his only family member; his dad. I hope we got to see that more in this new season but I doubt it.

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    • Its Levii wrote: Okay I got you, and now I agree with you!

      You know, it's hard to be a Miller/Briller shipper because we always saw them together since season 3 and they just throw it away like it was nothing. Jonathan probably gets more payed for his new role and I don't blame him for it .... However, I blame the writers for not giving it a fully ending and now you say it, kill him so Miller could deal with that. We need to see more of Millers emotions because he just lost his boyfriend and his only family member; his dad. I hope we got to see that more in this new season but I doubt it.

      Yeah the writers screwed up they knew or at least has to have an idea that he could leave due to his new show. Even if they didn't do it in 4x04 they could of at least said he stayed behind with Jasper. Since Miller was with Abby he wouldn't know until he got to the bunker, imagine how crushing it would be to learn your boyfriend choice to die and then days later wake to find out your dad sacrificed himself for you. Losing the two closest people just days apart would crush anyone. Miller definitely Ned's to show more emotion cause he's pretty much just been the strong silent guy.

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    • The difference with hypothetically killing off Octavia and killing off just any lgbt character is that there is no trope for randomly killing off a straight, white, cis woman in media. It happens sure, but the trope with lesbian and bisexual women, especially if they're trans or of color, is a whole other magnitude. 156 lesbian and bisexual women have been killed off, and that was just in 2016. And straight, cis, white girls don't need the representation. Gay people who watch these shows need to know that they can have happy endings. But watching Clarke and Lexa, it doesn't really seem possible. (Or Octavia and Lincoln because apparently black people can't get happy endings too, that's a trope that I know less about however so I won't go into it further.)

      Allow me to elaborate. As the trope goes, two women (typically a lesbian and bisexual) get together after a long period of battling it out and fighting against it, finally they kiss, have sex, and then the lesbian dies the next scene. The bisexual ends up with her male love interest who didn't like the lesbian from the beginning because the lesbian was a little more morally ambiguous and the gay people watching turn on some crap youtube webshows. Because that's about all they can do.

      This is in no uncertain terms exactly what happened in the 100. But so many things made the show did exaggerated it to the point that we couldn't just watch more youtube, and actually had to make our voices heard. 

      First of all, Lexa - the most powerful warrior alive, who destroyed Roan the Ice Prince in a battle to the death, died from a stray gun shot. That's weak story telling and I think we can agree on that. Not only that but her medically trained girlfriend and her faithful servant were both there, and did nothing. Jasper survived being impaled, Raven getting shot in the back and having surgery while awake- but Lexa, the greatest warrior alive, got shot in the stomach and suddenly she's dead. That's laziness, it's pure laziness. Also, she got killed 64 seconds after having sex with Clarke, 64 seconds. Like the trope doesn't have to go that hard. 

      Second of all, the 100 producers baited us. They gave us hints of a happy ending while they were working filming, just to toy with us. Jason Rothberg tweeted multiple images of Lexa on set of the season 3 finale and invited fans to come watch the filming. From their pictures, videos, and accounts Alicia Debnam Carrey was there- lexa it seemed, would survive season 3. But looking back during season 2, when it was first said that Lexa was lesbian and had an ex girlfriend who died many gay women were unhappy with this as well- another lesbian not getting her happy ending. In response the writer's tweeted: "She's the representation, and she's not going anywhere." One even tweeted "watch the 100 if you like Xena, it has great lesbian representation!" Xena was another perpetrator of the bury your gays trope. Thus the writer was hinting "watch this! the gay woman won't die!" 

      The CW has made a gamble as a network to make shows that will have fandoms, and encourage these fandoms as much as possible because they believed the stronger the fandom the stronger the show. And they're right. But if they make shows specifically for the fandom then add gay characters they have to take care of those characters. LGBT people are so desperate for representation that they will watch anything as soon as there's gay people. Why? 6.4% of shows have a gay character in them, very few of those have screentime, fewer have happy endings. And here was the 100 promising us both. So when we get behind a show- we get behind a show. We can't afford to have it cancelled, there isn't something to take it's place. So we get everyone and their mother to start watching, and we watch it on the day, and live tweet, and rewatch it on netflix to up the ratings. We advertise so we can have some people to relate to. But as soon as they got the viewership, as soon as they got us hooked, Jason Rothberg pulled the rug out from under us and killed the arguably best representation at that point of time currently on TV. The show was designed to make a fandom, they encouraged the fandom, they encouraged gay people to watch, and then they killed the gay character. So we fought back. We didn't watch a you tube webshow or rewatch the glee gay wedding episode, we raised hundred of thousands for charity, we stopped watching, we told and everyone and their mother to stop watching, we made Lexa pledges for future writers so it would never happen again. What Jason did was queerbaiting and could've cost actual lives. I know that back in seventh grade when I was questioning my sexuality and desperately watching whatever I could get my hands on to figure it out this would've broken me. I knew plenty of people with worse mental health at the time where if it had happened then it might've been the nail in the coffin that killed them. 

      The it's get better movement tries to teach young depressed gay kids to keep hoping because they will get their happy endings. But how can they believe that if in everything they see everywhere the lesbians are being killed off right and left? 

      And listen I can agree with you to some degree that Miller's boyfriend fading out is sort of stupid. I can agree. But Bellamy being alive is plot armor too. How many times has he nearly died? How many people has he needlessly killed? Finn died after killing 18, but Bellamy's count is in the hundred's and he's alive. Why? Could it be because he's the male love interest?

      I'm telling you that in season five Clarke and Madi are going to be like a tight nit family that won't trust him, then Madi will have some good moments with him, he might save her life, and then she'll talk him up to Clarke. He'll try to get with Clarke but she'll turn him down because she's still not over Lexa. They'll have a moment where he'll make her feel better about Lexa. They'll get together at the end of season 5 with another lesbian's death furthering a straight couples romance. The show will end, and gay fans will keep fighting to raise money. Also Niylah probably will be dead either at the beginning of the season or midway through, or will fade away too. 

      Because lgbt characters only exist to further the storylines of straight ones, and there are kids out there who need representation, who are just starting to figure themselves out and they're getting a very clear message. Gay people don't get happy endings, they just don't.

      Did you know that Clarke saying 'I love you' to Lexa was ad libbed by Eliza? Jason Rothberg didn't even give us that, Eliza did. And it was cut out of the DVDs. 

      What Jason Rotherberg did warrented the extreme reaction, hell I don't think it was enough in a lot of ways. There were other social problems (class, race) in the show that were coming up too that he handled badly. And when lgbt fans got heartbroken this time they organized. Don't be mad at us, be mad at the man who brought us in to up his ratings and then took away the only thing that was keeping us there in such an offensive way that we couldn't be silent.

      Here's an artical with some of the tweets and points I've made above, I could probably find more stuff corroborating this if you'd like but here's what I have on hand. I hope this clears up why we were so angry and why we did what we did. Just put yourself in our shoes. The vast majority of the world hates us, we're being put in concentration camps in russia, killed in a ton of countries all over the world, and whenever we meet someone we think "is this person going to hate my guts? Is it safe to be myself?" All our shows are filled with people we can't relate to, and sometimes make comments against us "as a joke!" Is it any surprise that we escape to tv shows, books, and movies, as an escape? Is it any surprise that when the little representation we have dies we get pissed? Think about it, I'm serious, you're typing out a response pause a second. Seriously think about how you would feel if you didn't feel safe being yourself around anyone, sometimes your family or your closest friends. Think about feeling that isolated and seeing on TV a leader, a hero of her people getting the girl that you've watched her pine over for a season. It gives you hope that someday you'll get that too. And then watching that same badass, powerful woman, the one you look up to and aspire to be, dying 64 seconds later at the hands of a stray bullet while her medic girlfriend watched. And you can't help but think- if she was a guy this never would've happened, or maybe it would've but it wouldn't have mattered because you can tune the channel once to find another show with a straight romance. 

      But we can't. We hide in shadows and hope that when people say 'it get's better' they mean it, even if a hundred other shows and badass warrior women who can survive anything- dying, says differently. 

      Think about what that would do to you over time, watching that happen to 156 of these characters. And it getting to the point where you see a gay woman on tv and you say "She's dying next season" and you being right. Think about it for a second. Please.

      Thanks for taking the time to read- here's the link. I hope this is a reasonable explanation to your question. 

      https://lgbtfansdeservebetter.com/character/lexa-the-100/

      (Sorry if there are grammer or spelling issues, I'm exhausted. Finals are this week man and that means sleeping is a thing of the past!) 

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    • Thank you for your comment it was very informative and I never knew about those tweets they make me hate JR even more he should have never sent out those tweets cause you never know how much things can change season to season. Yes ADC was moving to a new show and might of needed to be killed off so he should have never toyed with people over something that could have changed.

      Lexa s death was horrible, she deserved to die a warriors death. I do believe however it was her time to go, and if a characters death develops a character or the overall story it shouldn't matter what community they belong to as long as the death doesn't disrespect their community. In the end though there are always going to be people who are offended.

      Representation is very important as long as it's not forced and I feel for the most part every demographic is covered in this show with the exception of the Hispanic community. I am Hispanic, but I'm not going to demand that they introduce one to satisfy me. If they can do it where it feels natural that's fine. Now I'm not saying that me being Hispanic is like being LGBT but that representation is important. I'm also a disabled person and I've always felt unrepresented or poorly represented by shows and films. However I've recently felt more represented with shows like the good doctor that show people that people like myself are just like them and just struggle sometimes with daily things. Now I know my things are no way like being LGBT and I'm not comparing myself to LGBT people I'm just saying my things help me to understand and agree with the importance of representation of people of all communities.

      Again thank you for your comment it was nice to hear insight from someone who is a member of the LGBT community.

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    • Hey thanks for responding this has been an interesting conversation! 

      So I would totally agree with you, if not for the trope that makes lgbt characters so kill offable, and lgbt people being a discriminated minority.

      Here this says it better: "According to GLAAD's analysis, '25 lesbian and bisexual female-identifying characters have died on scripted broadcast and cable television and streaming series since the beginning of 2016... Most of these deaths served no other purpose than to further the narrative of a more central (and often straight, cisgender) character. When there are so few lesbian and bisexual women on television, the decision to kill these characters in droves sends a toxic message about the worth of queer female stories,' GLAAD President & CEO Sarah Kate Ellis was quoted saying in the report. 'When the most repeated ending for a queer woman is violent death, producers must do better to question the reason for a character’s demise and what they are really communicating to the audience,' Ellis added."

      So I guess the difference with being hispanic and LGBT is that you see hispanic people growing up, like your parents, your family members, you see it growing up. But when you're gay (I'm using it as a blanket term because I'm tireddddd) you don't have that. A lot of people are luckily raised in accepting families but I didn't know it was a thing until I was ten, and then all it knew was that two women can get married. I didn't even know the couple that well to be honest. And my family was so accepting that I when I got the talk, even though I wasn't out to my family, they covered all sexualities and stuff just in case. So even with a super accepting family, I never saw gay people. I never heard them talk or was around them, and my first few relationships failed because I had no idea what a gay relationship looked like. But when you're hispanic you probably at least know one healthy couple, or at least happy healthy person. (I dunno your life tho man). I didn't even meet another out gay person until I had been out for a year to my entire school. But like, I was lucky with my family, with my lesbian cousin who came out first. I was so lucky. Some people grow up in worlds where they don't even know you CAN be gay, and then when they start to realize they are all they see on TV are lesbians dying horrible deaths. When I first started figuring myself out I devoured every piece of gay media I found, I watched youtubers, I watched movies and TV shows. Everything I've learned about being in a happy healthy lesbian relationship I've taught myself. I've had to. TV shows, books and movies are a lot of people's only way to learn that stuff, and if the representation is bad we can't fall back on our parents, or our relatives, or usually anyone, we just have to figure it out on our own and get heartbroken a lot. 

      I too am disabled, so I can definitely recognize the issues with that type of representation too, and a lot of the same issues are just as apparent. Disabled people deserve better representation too, and I guess imagine if you were watching the good doctor when you were a kid just starting out school. Would it have made you felt better about your disability and less alone? I remember before I was diagnosed I felt like the dumbest kid in the world, I had no idea why I couldn't just understand and do stuff like everyone else. Man if we could go back to middle school am I right?

      So I in no way am trying to compare our different experiences, (white) gay people and (straight) hispanic people have very different struggles and I appreciate you empathizing and I hope you know I was just clarifying. Thank you for this discussion and sharing so much with me this has been really fascinating and I've enjoyed talking about this with you. Thanks again :)))))

      Where the quote was from

      All those 193 who've died

      Another harmful lgbt trope the 100 is guilty of perpetrating

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    • Thank you and again I agree let's not compare our differences.

      Now I do agree with the fact that LGBT characters are one of the lowest represented demographic. I also agree that to an extent they should be careful about how many they kill off. My problem with With this however is it eventually becomes a problem for storytelling. If you say 25 LGBT characters have died this year, so it's insensitive if a show kills off another what if a story revolves around that character dying for the story.

      For example in 2016 on TWD a LGBT character was killed off, and it was done due to the source material and the story they were telling. Lexa s death was definitely weak, but her death was needed for the story they were telling. Also if you have characters like Bryan and Niylah who are mainly there to prop up and advance their partners story you have to expect they might die.

      This is a show about people surviving the apocalypse not everyone is going to survive and live happily ever after. When you watch a show about this topic and there are LGBT characters you have to expect they might not survive.

      Finally if you use the argument of 25 LGBT characters have died so I'd be insensitive if a show kills off another can be applied to any minority group. Look at the cop and hospital shows, cop shows almost always portray criminals as African Americans and sometimes African Americans are killed. Now I know African Americans are represented more than LGBT but what's stopping that community from saying too many African Americans have been killed this year so it'd be insensitive if a show kills off another. If you look at how many cop and medical shows are on minority characters are a lot of the times the victims of deaths, and if you look at how many are on a week the death toll of minority groups are probably higher than LGBT characters.

      Again I'm not comparing these two cause obviously minority groups are represented more I'm just playing devils advocate.

      Thank you again for your comments it's nice to hear from someone who is a member of the LGBT community.

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    • Comparing race and LGBT+ is a poor comparison because, in general, one is vertical identity (you share with your parents) and one is a horizontal identity (you are different from your family). A better comparison would be disability since it is also a horizontal identity (though different groups are always different). The reason I point that LGBT+ is a horizontal identity is IP's point that many LGBT+ youth don't know anyone like themselves thus look to tv, books, etc. Most youths know many people of their own race so they don't need to look to fiction. That's partially why a fictional LGBT+ character can be so impactful.

      Death trope is not unique to LGBT+, there is the Black Dude Dies First trope & others. In recent years there has been some push back against black female deaths, especially when furthering a white man's storyline. What percent of LGBT+ characters have been killed off vs non-LGBT+ characters? I don't think we should ban all deaths, but we should make sure minorities aren't disproportionately red shirts, that major & minor characters who're LGBT+ aren't disproportionately killed off. And when deaths happen, try to still avoid the trope.

      As someone who's bi, I am annoyed by the implication that killing a LGB character is worse if later that character's bi partner enters a heterosexual relationship. In real life, bi people are discriminated against including within the gay/lesbian community. The fact that bi partner is still bi shouldn't make a death worse. I understand that lesbians/gays want lesbian/gay relationships, but bi people want bi characters too & bi characters should be allowed to have straight relationships.

      As a side note, these days fictional cop shows do a lot better job showing diversity, both in criminals and police. I've watched many crime shows in the last decade (Lucifer, Forever, Criminal Minds, Bones, Dexter, etc.) and none of them had majority African American criminals. Other genres also do a much better job in diversity. There are also more shows focusing on different groups (e.g. Empire, Jane the Virgin, Speechless, etc.), including LGBT+ (e.g. Transparent, When We Rise, etc.).

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    • Janas100 I acre with everything you said. Race definitely is in no way relatable to being LGBT I just mentioned in relation to representation. Also I do agree that cop and medical shows have definitely gotten better with diversifying characters and deaths.

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    • Smart to hold back that opinion, especially since in that time period for the show, this wiki had an admin who would ban anyone (or delete their comments) with an opinion that differed from theirs. 

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    • Lexa death was one of the poorest handly story arcs in the show.  It was weak and the city of Light while it helps with her send-off it did not repair it that much. The Ratings for the show have tank a lot since Lexa was killed off, i do not think it has to do with the LGBT but more of bad storytelling.  Though i will admit killing her right after her and clarke have sex was a mistake. They could of had her kill any other way maybe by ALLIE control forces.

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    • 174.53.58.125 wrote: Lexa death was one of the poorest handly story arcs in the show.  It was weak and the city of Light while it helps with her send-off it did not repair it that much. The Ratings for the show have tank a lot since Lexa was killed off, i do not think it has to do with the LGBT but more of bad storytelling.  Though i will admit killing her right after her and clarke have sex was a mistake. They could of had her kill any other way maybe by ALLIE control forces.

      Lexa's death was definitely handed poorly out of all the deaths on the show. Especially aftyhaving her and Clarke sleeping together.

      My discussion isn't about whether the ratings tanked due to Lexa being LGBT. My discussion is whether the backlash the show got from the lLGBT community after lexa's death has scared the creators into not wanting to kill off another LGBT character.

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    • Hey I'm the fandom user you were talking to for most of this (I didn't send in the last two messages geez) sorry I've been so busy.

      I definitely agree with both of you that the issues are entirely different, and I apologize for comparing them. 

      And has Lexa's death scared them from not killing off another lgbt character? It could've, but that's difficult to prove, we can't really get inside their head. The question is: should it?

      My answer is yes. If they don't have multiple points of representation (like if they just have one main couple the majority of the lgbt fandom watches it for, and then a couple side characters they mention for bonus points) and then they kill them off that's bad representation. If they wanted to kill of lexa and break off the pairing they should've already had another main lesbian couple or built one up soon after (but that would've been hard to do and not seem like some desperate bid for attention) so that queer people wouldn't lose representation. 

      And to the other user- Janus100, I entirely agree with you that bi representation is important and that bi people face discrimination for it. I understand your feeling that bisexual people should be represented as dating men and women as Clarke has been. My worry is that when shows make their endgame a straight pairing it potrays the other relationships they had with people of the same gender as a phase, or people will view it that way. It's a huge issue on the other side too, where when a bi character ends up with a woman she's seen as a lesbian even if she's fallen for men. I don't know what the answer is, I really don't. Maybe it's visibility? Characters actually saying their sexuality? Brooklyn 99 just did that with a bi character but I can't watch that show so I can't so one way or the other if it helped.

      You are also very right about the black guy dies first trope, I hadn't thought about it until recently and then I did some research. Sorry for leaving it out, but you're very very right about that being an issue. Right now there's not a much representation on the show for people of color, and not positive at least. All we got is Raven Reyes (hispanic? I think? I might be wrong?) and Indra...

      So yes, creators should be worried next time they kill off a qqueer character. They need to think "is this going to improve the storyline signifigantly if we do it by a stray bullet or is there a better way we can do it?" "should we bring her back at the end of the season just to kill her again or would that rub salt in the wound?" "should we make it seem like she'll be safe that season so it's more traumatizing for our viewers?" "should we give her an entire 'love is weakness' storyline just so she can die from it and prove it right?" "should we have her be killed by her father figure directly after consumating her love with her girlfriend reinforcing the idea that lesbian sex is wrong and dangerous?" "should we have more than one couple as representation so we aren't leaving our viewers with nothing?" These are the questions they needed to ask themselves before they wrote that scene, these were the questions they didn't. 

      Creators need to think long and hard before they kill off another LGBT chracter but don't worry about them becoming indestructible my friend. That's never going to happen. I promise there will never be a time where plot armour protects gay characters for being gay in the same way it protects straight characters. For example: Murphy getting literally hung and pretty much every scene with him, Bellamy Blake killing 300 people in cold blood and a bunch of other things, Jasper getting impaled by a giant stick and an inexperienced 17 year old glorified med student saving him, Raven be tortured, being given life threatening surgery, stopping her own heart??, like to be fair straight characters are very indestructible in this show... And what they did to Miller's boyfriend they also did to Wick who just kinda faded off so that's not just a gay problem that's a bad writer program. 

      Does all this make sense? Is it legible? I haven't slept in 746 years so I might be a little tired haha... s kgj;dshdg

      Anyway, I hope the backlash does make them think twice before killing off another lgbt character because the showrunners didn't even think once. 

      Thanks again for reading this long ass rambling reply

      Anyway here's a cute video about lions

      here's a site with a lot of stats and specific info about lgbt representation

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    • Fans are gonna aggro one way or the other really.

      @JCB95, one thing though, not every character has to be developed or die, some characters are meant to be NPC like. Niylah does have a specific purpose, it might not be much but it is a realistic one. While she might have been pretty much a b**** call for Clarke, she did to a little extent always serve as an emotional anchor for clarke since season 3

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    • I would like to kick in a thought here --- a bit late, I know...but I just started watching The 100 about 6 months ago on Netflix --- I just finished season 5 two days ago. This show is both the greatest show I've ever seen and the worst. I really hate how the writers toy with the characters and the directions they often go. I think it was real apparant to me because I binged watched it and I think that allows you to see the issues better and quicker. I totally get why the LGBT folks hated what was done to Lexa. I'm not sure they had a choice as the actress seemed pretty set on taking the role on Fear the Walking Dead and prob couldn't have pulled off both shows - or maybe didn't want to. How they led up to her death and how they handled it --- they absolutely have sole responsibility for that...and rightfully so. I am a straight woman and I'm not a fan of PDA from straight or gay couples - most the time it seems unnecessary. But with that being said --- the relationship between Lexa and Clarke was probably the best handled and built relationship I have ever seen. When you watch a show - especially if you are straight - you always in your head know you are watching a gay or straight couple --- but for the first time EVER for me - with the Lexa/Clarke relationship - I just saw two people in love coming together. That was freakin' amazing --- I'm pretty liberal and believe strongly in equality...but to lose yourself in a relationship when you're not particular fond of seeing such scenes gay or straight --- I was blown away. I was actually saying to the TV --- "Kiss her already!"....this is a huge credit to the two actresses playing these roles, especially Alycia Debnam-Carey. I was gutted and felt betrayed as a viewer when the Lexa character was killed off so abruptly and so casually without a meaningful death. But these writers seem to have a way of taking characters and paths that do not make sense. I think the Luna character could have been soooooo much more - she had the heart of a peacemaker - she was kindof like the person of peace that Lexa was trying to be. For the main characters to use her like a pin-cushing and then for her character to do such a 180 and want to kill everyone --- that was just too far-fetched. Such a waste of a great and complex character...Luna should have been so much more.

      So many of the characters develop in great ways just to have them fall from grace with stupid immoral decisions: examples... (1) Bellamy following Pike and killing the innocent 300 grounders just trying to protect them; (2) Lexa was far too willing to forgive such a horrific thing -- her relationship with Clarke was important --- but so much so she could allow the murder of 300 of her own people to go without justice? I'd say no. (3) Abby going total drug addict;  (4) Kane betraying his people to McCleary; (5) Bellamy and Clarke betraying Octavia; (6) Clarke betraying Bellamy - and pretty much everyone several times over in season 5; (7) Octavia betraying her people by gas-lighting their entire food source; (8) Ultimately - the writers of this show betraying their viewers and the characters they developed. Season 5 should have simply been called - "The Apocalypse of Truth --- The Art of Betrayal" ...the only characters that stayed true to themselves was Madi, Echo, Monty, Harper and Raven. All that two-faced business with Clarke, Bellamy, Kane and Abby --- just made me sick.

      These writers need to allow their characters to step towards enlightenment without such huge, unbelievable backslides into darkness...They need to quit wasting incredible characters as well.

      Sorry --- went off-topic from the Lexa/Clarke thing -- kindof ---- but my point: this was probably the best LGBT relationship ever developed for a fictional show. I agree it wasn't handled well in the end and I'm more surprised everyone wasn't up in arms -- not just the LGBT community. The writers blew it and everyone knows it -- even them at this point. This makes me want to create my own show and make better decisions.

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