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  • TotallyTinkerbell
    TotallyTinkerbell closed this thread because:
    End of discussion.
    22:09, December 28, 2015

    Why was I blocked? Without a message or a warning, for three months for 'removing content from pages'? I didn't do that.

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    • If you're talking about this edit, that is actually in my sandbox. I didn't do anything on the real page.

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    • For some reason the message didn't come through regarding your warning. I luckally took a picture of it, which I will insert below.

      12434368 10207269680493114 1241863684 n
      What I had added after this picture was the fact that I take it very serious if other valued members of this wikia ask for a block. Considering I agreed with the fact that your behaviour was inappropriate, I went through with it.

      I chose 3 months cause that will be after the S3 premiere.

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    • I never 'demanded' changes be made. I made a suggestion, on the suggestion page. I edited minor things in the layout guide, and, additionally, I was never given a warning. No one ever came to me and said, 'hey this isn't how we do things'. It was always a reversion, with no explanation.

      How is asking a question 'questioning your authority'. I wanted to know whether the members of the community have any say in the actual election of an admin. It certainly wasn't meant to imply that you don't have good judgement. I was asking a question.

      One of the first lines in the policy is that the wiki "practices open-mindedness and assumes good faith". I certainly don't feel as though that has been the case. You blocked me without having spoken to me since April of this year, when I was here last. I offered suggestions for changes then, too.

      And the 'hypercorrections', as you called them, were simply a formatting error, and, more importantly, an accident. A mistake.

      Yes, I have knowledge of coding. However, I didn't know that you centered the plot subheading. I wasn't 'ignoring' the wiki's rules regarding coding because, upon looking at the layout guide, there is absolutely nothing there that talks about centering the content in the plot subheading.

      If you agreed with another user's opinion that my behaviour was inappropriate, it would have been nice to be alerted //before being blocked. How was I supposed to know and correct it, if the only person I'm talking to is one who hadn't bothered to elaborate on certain things anyway – like the fact that the APA formatting for headings was incredibly important, but that APA style itself is not in use on the wiki.

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    • I will apologise for the message, containing the warning, not getting through. As for the block being effective immediatly, that's because of the frequency of your edits.

      What I'm saying is that you may not feel like you were 'demanding' , or you may feel like asking that question there was fine, but me and other users found it inappropriate, and you should learn to take other's people's feelings into consideration.

      I also have the fullest understanding for mistakes. And I will tell you that those hypercorrections are not the only reason for the block. It's more a collective of missteps you've made while on this wikia. And yes I say this with an open mind, because we have actually discussed all the changes on the suggestions board amonst admins during S2, but at that time we had just revamped the wikia so we couldn't really enforce most of these changes so soon.

      In terms of the APA & coding ; Ignorance of the way this wikia does things does not mean you're free to do it whatever way. This goes with what I said about taking the time to get familiar with the editing,then you'd have known. I'm not saying that me or other users are flawless editors. I myself often make mistakes. But I can handle it when people point it out, and that is something that I have not experienced with you. 

      I am just trying to notify you of some points you need to keep in mind, I'm by no means trying to be harsh. But those points I just noticed and I simply don't think it's in the wikia's interest, this close to the premiere, to have these things on here.

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    • There is no way for me to get familiar with the way the wiki works if there's nothing in the guides about it, and if I'm blocked so I can't even experience it. If someone had contacted me and actually explained why my edits were inappropriate, I would have needed them. But I feel like I've only made a few mistakes, and suddenly Ive earned a three month block. It isn't like I'm going to go ahead and start making the same mistakes after I've learnt that they //are mistakes. you say you aren't trying to be harsh, but I haven't been given a chance to either correct or atone for my mistakes. I come from a different wiki. we do things differently.

      I didn't know you had already discussed those suggestions. No one commented and said 'yeah we recently discussed this and decided against it'. I got nothing from anybody except from Skyzy, who also asked for me to be blocked for 'trolling' – a word that hasn't come up at all since, and definitely not in regards to the reason I was blocked.

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      • would have heeded, not needed.
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    • Getting familiar with the wikia includes more than just reading the guides tho. That's exactly what I'm trying to say. Not every single habbit on this wikia can be explained in the guides. But those things can be easily spotted if you just compare more than one page, or use an example page (like it is referenced in the layout guide - empty page layouts are clearly stated there)

      In terms of the explenation, you have been talking to Skyzy. Which I have seen. I don't think it'd have been effective if we had went and had the exact same conversation. I agreed with them, and I have used a summary of the arguments they have used in the picture I send you (which was supposed to be send to you before the block). You have been simply going up against everything thas has been pointed out to you in the past (either by me, or by another well-respected user on this wikia) and that simply does not show much atonement. 

      In regard to that discussion... "I got nothing from anybody except from Skyzy" is exactly what I mean ; You did get something. You got it from Skyzy. Which is not 'anybody'. You got messaged, and I'm glad you did. Admittedly, I did not message you myself right away but the only reason for that is that I have become the only admin on this wikia ever since, ad have been overloaded with work. And even that could have been easily prevented if you had just send me a little message on my message wall asking like 'Did you have a look at my suggestions yet?'.

      In terms of the word trolling, if it had been in the 'reasons why blocking' section I may have used it. Now it says removing content from pages regarding the coding on pages like The Calm, and for your edits on the layout-guide, which are the most clear offenses you've done.

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    • TotallyTinkerbell wrote: In terms of the word trolling, if it had been in the 'reasons why blocking' section I may have used it. Now it says removing content from pages regarding the coding on pages like The Calm, and for your edits on the layout-guide, which are the most clear offenses you've done.

      Once again, the edit to "The Calm" page was an accident. I didn't realise that the code was needed because it's not in the layout guide (ergo, I assumed, not standard layout). Regarding the edits made to the guide itself, I'm not sure why changing [citation needed] to {{cite}} is a problem, considering the template adds the exact same notice in-text, and also categorises the page so people can see which pages need citations.

      And there is no standard formatting guide in the world that recognises episode titles in italics. Ever. As said, Skyzy seemed pretty adamant about the APA, and thus, I changed it to the APA standard.

      TotallyTinkerbell wrote: Getting familiar with the wikia includes more than just reading the guides tho.

      And you have blocked me for three months, thus not enabling me to really do anything //except read the guides. Sure, as admin you have power to do anything you want, but for the few edits I have done, I feel as though three months is completely unnecessary. Three days, perhaps. I get it. I understand. Don't edit the layout guide. Don't remove code unless I am 100% certain it is unneeded (for instance, HTML code that isn't used on the wiki, like  ). Don't make suggestions this close to the season premiere and, apparently, this soon after other changes were suggested (though Skyzy could have told me. They've been here long enough, I assume).

      You say this could have been prevented if I had sent a message. And yet it could also have been prevented if you had done the same, telling me my actions were not in the best interest of the wiki. I don't see suggestions as detrimental, and, obviously, if I make a mistake it's because it was an accident.

      The most 'clear offenses' I have done have been tiny in the grand scheme of things. They have been mistakes, or things that I believed were correct (but now understand weren't). I apologise. The landing page for the 'policies' tab leads me straight to a line that says "Don't be afraid to get started. Go ahead, it's a wiki!" and yet when I've done that, I've earned a block before even being warned that my actions of 'getting started' could result in one. I don't believe that's fair, and I think that, if you give me another go, I can prove it to you.

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    • - What's wrong with your new citation is that it's not accesible. I speak of personal opinion when I say that [citation needed] with nowiki's arround it is 10 times more intimidating to touch rather than [citation needed]. We want people to use it, not have people steer away from it. Also, as far as I can recall I remember from the page history that you went back and redid it after a respectable wikia user corrected your mistake. You should have just communicated about this to the wikia, instead of assuming you're write because there is a lack of anything in the guide stating you're wrong.

      - In terms of the APA usage, I will tell you that I'm not even American, or and English native. And for me, the way Skyzy has done things is clear. I don't think we should go around and change everything because of something so futile.

      - Messaging you ; I have told you twice before (which you seemed to ignore) - you did get messaged. Just not by me, but by Skyzy. Who is about to become an admin on this wikia, so you should be wise not to call out things like 'ugly' in your conversations with them. If you're demanding admin approval, or an admin message, then you should have the patience to wait for it.

      - Go ahead it's a wiki , this doesn't mean edit our layout-guides and question our usage of APA. This is in regards to content, which is what this wikia is mainly about. Don't use that as an open invite to just go around doing what you did.


      I'm glad you seem to understand your mistakes - but I stand my ground on the block. You can prove you understand the workings of the wikia after the block.

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    • Hey, is this conversation done yet? The fact that it keeps showing up in wiki activity is sort of getting on my nerves. I want to see the most recent comments/speculation/theories about the show and edits, not the never ending posts of complaints... Cuz I don't care.

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    • TheOmegaWerewolf wrote: Hey, is this conversation done yet? The fact that it keeps showing up in wiki activity is sort of getting on my nerves. I want to see the most recent comments/speculation/theories about the show and edits, not the never ending posts of complaints... Cuz I don't care.

      I'm sorry that this conversation keeps showing up for you when you don't care. However, the reason that it keeps showing up is because I do care, about the show, this wiki, and it's community, and I would like to be given a chance again to join it sooner rather than in 3 months, I hope you can understand that and won't take offense if this continues.

      TotallyTinkerbell wrote: What's wrong with your new citation is that it's not accesible.

      I understand this and completely agree with your reasoning that we need to do things to make things as accessible as possible to people. However, it seems that there is a misunderstanding over the scope of the change I intended to make. I designed the [citation needed] template to give the same visual outcome on pages, so it will show up as [citation needed] as is current practice, but it also has the bonus of adding a category to the page of "citation needed". As such, there will be a category for everyone to see containing pages on which we are missing citations. That's helpful for both new and older users, as it's then clear where work needs to be done as opposed to going through individual pages and read them all to see whether or not a citation needs to be added somewhere.

      Additionally, I agree with you that the nowiki tags can indeed be intimidating to edit and as such should not be used on a page. However, they would not be used on any page with the template. They were merely used on the Layout Guide page to prevent the template from working. If you put just [citation needed] on the page without the nowiki tags, the visual representation of the template would be changed to [citation needed] and the "needs citation category" would be added to the Layout Guide, which is not what we want. Thus by flanking the template with nowiki tags, the visual representation of the template will just be [citation needed], so everyone will know how to put down the template. To make matters even more clear for everyone, we can link to the template page itself, where we can then add an explanation on how the template is to be used and what the point of it all is, so that even those less code savvy know exactly what the template does, so they will not be afraid to use it.

      TotallyTinkerbell wrote: In terms of the APA usage, I will tell you that I'm not even American, or and English native. And for me, the way Skyzy has done things is clear. I don't think we should go around and change everything because of something so futile.

      As someone who's learning another language herself, I completely understand the difficulties that come with understanding every piece of grammar the language has to offer. As a native English speaker, I will also be the first to admit that the English grammar is a handful and sometimes difficult to understand, especially considering the differences there are between American, British, and Australian English (just to name a few). Which why, after I noticed that my changes in regards to the APA were perceived as unwanted, I asked Skyzy for some clarification in regards to how exactly the style is applied on this wiki. Because APA is a formatting style, it basically means that it's an all or nothing deal. While I can understand that it can be clear to someone who has been around it for a while and thus knows when the rules of APA are followed and when not, it does not make sense from a linguistic point of view.

      To give a practical example, using APA selectively as is done on this wiki, using one particular format style for one aspect, and not for another, is like saying "We use American English, unless the word has an 'o' in it, then we will use the British spelling and add a 'u' to it." While that may be a clear rule to someone used to it, from a third party perspective, this is just confusing and perceived as an error or an oversight. If this is the preferred style on the wiki, however, then I would suggest making a note of it in the Layout Guide. I know that I have been told that not every practice on this wiki needs to be written down, and to a certain degree, I can even agree with that, but the way the wiki does things right now is a pure linguistic error that gives room to confusion. That was all I was trying to correct with my edits.

      TotallyTinkerbell wrote: Also, as far as I can recall I remember from the page history that you went back and redid it after a respectable wikia user corrected your mistake. You should have just communicated about this to the wikia, instead of assuming you're write because there is a lack of anything in the guide stating you're wrong.

      You are right; I should perhaps have communicated better with the rest of this community in terms of the scope of the changes that I was making. Which is part of the reason why I do understand why you felt the need to block me, but considering my good intent with everything that I did and the lack of real communication on the reasons why what I did was wrong, the length of the block just seems unfair. I did everything with the best interest of the wiki and good faith in mind. We are all fans of the show here intending to make the best wiki about The 100.

      TotallyTinkerbell wrote: Who is about to become an admin on this wikia, so you should be wise not to call out things like 'ugly' in your conversations with them.

      I never meant to be rude to Skyzy, and I was under the impression that I was not, I merely voiced my opinion which happened to be contradictory to theirs. I disagreed with Skyzy, but that was all I did. It is my hope, however, that the fact that someone is an administrator -or about to become on- does not affect that people can disagree with them. As an administrator myself on another wiki, I know the workload that comes with being an administrator, but that doesn't mean that, generally speaking, an administrator is always right. That's why wikis are build by communities, because we simply cannot do it alone. That sometimes also means that there will be disagreements of sorts, but the mere fact that two people disagree with each other doesn't mean that they do not respect each other. I respect Skyzy very much as a trusted user of this community and all the work they do to make this community better. But as I noted above already, that's also all that I am trying to do: making this community better. I may have different ideas than how things are generally done here, but that doesn't mean that my ideas are bad and/or unworkable. They may require some work to implement them, but as I told Skyzy when we talked about that before, I'm more than willing to do that work, as I just love this show and would like nothing more than to make this wiki even better than it already is.

      TotallyTinkerbell wrote: Go ahead it's a wiki , this doesn't mean edit our layout-guides and question our usage of APA. This is in regards to content, which is what this wikia is mainly about.

      I apologize again for having changed the Layout Guide. However, I only did that to have the Layout Guide reflect the way the content was built up, specifically referencing the usage of APA then. Because, as I outlined above, there is just a linguistic error in the application of the APA system on this wiki. So after I was informed by Skyzy that this wiki employs APA, I took liberty of actually announcing that fact to every future new user of this wiki, as to prevent them from making the same errors as I did when I joined here, as to make it clear to all which style guide this wiki employs. I understand now that I may have crossed a line by changing such a policy page myself and that it should be left to the administrators, but while the way I went about it was apparently wrong, the intention I had with my changes was not, as I believe it would be helpful to new (and old) users to know know on a linguistic level how they should edit on this wiki.

      Content and policy are intertwined. There is no need for a policy when you don't have content, and you cannot have a harmonious content without a policy outlining how you need to write it properly. So that is why I assumed that "go ahead, it's a wiki" covered all the aspects of the wiki. It was in no way a deliberate attempt to question your authority or anything else. I was merely meant to correct what I perceived to be an oversight in the content -both the content on pages as on the policy page.

      TotallyTinkerbell wrote: "but I stand my ground on the block. You can prove you understand the workings of the wikia after the block."

      I know that an administrator can block anyone for any reason and any amount of time that they see fit. But for reasons already stated, I do implore you to reconsider the length of the block you issues. As I told Skyzy, I come from another wiki where we do things differently. As such, I followed the general advice given by Wikia Staff on how to get familiar with a new wiki: starting by reading the local policies of that wiki so you know what you can and cannot do there, since every wiki has it's own particular rules. I did that and then started to make changes as I saw fit with the policy you have created for this wiki in mind. As I went along, I gradually learned more about the ways the wiki worked by trial and error, as it has been pointed out that a lot of the habits on this wiki are not covered in the policy. So after several errors, I figured that it was generally helpful to convey those errors into writing in the policy, so future users wouldn't make those same mistakes again and the wiki would have been better for it. Perhaps that should have been better left to you to do, but I just wanted to help the wiki and new users out. And I would like to continue doing that -in an adjusted manner of course, with everything that I've learned in mind. Since most "ways this wiki works" can only be learned by being a part of this wiki, I would love it if you can give me another chance by lessening the duration of my block.

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    • "So after I was informed by Skyzy that this wiki employs APA"

      This never happened.

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    • "You can disagree with me about the subheadings but APA and MLA are clear: second-level subheadings are capitalized." (as you can read here).

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    • Exactly. It doesn't say anything about this wiki employing APA. I also mentioned MLA so why do you keep ignoring MLA?

      Don't answer that. I don't care. You're already blocked for three months so stop wasting everyone's time and just move on.

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    • This conversation shows that I was not ignoring MLA, either. As I stated above, there is no formatting system that I am aware of that puts episode titles in italics – they all use quotes.

      I'm sorry if you feel like this is wasting time, however it's these issues that had me blocked in the first place. I care about this conversation because I care about this show, and would like to be given a chance to participate on the wiki earlier than three months hence.

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    • - I'm not going to quote the message, because that would make it too long -

      I know how APA and MLA work. I actually did my research when this was brought up. You don't have to explain that to me.. 

      Aside from that, there is a lot of  'I took the liberty' , 'I assumed' , 'I figured' and 'I was under the impression off..' as a way to justify your actions. You have defended your actions but that doesn't change the fact that they happened and that they were wrong. You need to understand I just want to protect this wikia and it's users. 

      We will take this incident into account for the future. Now, as I have stated above, I will not be changing my mind on the block, and for that reason I will end this conversation here.

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