Thread:Janus100/@comment-28398720-20160726205730/@comment-27794543-20160825081916


 * Fair use does not apply. If you think it does, feel free to explain how.
 * So far the only reasoning you provided is to claim is that it's not copyrighted because it's different from the script (false, it's still copyrighted) and that our descriptions make it sufficiently different (false, it's insufficient for fair use, since as explained, the descriptions are not transformative and too much of the copyrighted material is still being used).
 * E.g. the lyrics wikia has licenses for lyrics they post. For songs they don't have licenses, they use fair use to post a few lines from the songs, not the full lyrics. For this wikia, it's fine to claim fair use for the quote sections that exist on many of the pages, but fair use doesn't cover full transcripts.
 * Even when free use applies, e.g. images on GoT wikia, the copyright owner may still request removal.
 * If it's truly fair use, then the website isn't obligated to remove content, e.g. GoT wikia doesn't have to remove the images since they also claimed fair use in the template. However, depending on what kind of relationship it wants to have with copyright owner, the website may want to cooperate.
 * In the case of all wikias, if copyright owner issues a takedown notice, Wikia staff will remove the content regardless of the individual wikia's opinion of fair use.
 * The addition "The CW may request..." does not imply "extra". It merely states that we want to cooperate with the CW's requests regardless of fair use or not (e.g. GoT claims fair use but also state they want to cooperate with HBO). You're projecting the idea of an agreement from the GoT template which explicitly talks about an agreement. On it's own, "The CW may request..." says nothing of that sort. Just because a site wants to cooperate with the copyright owners doesn't mean they have an agreement from the copyright owner. Nor is it an admission of a crime.
 * Your disclaimer has multiple issues.
 * The first clause, "intended for educational and promotional purposes only", besides being false, does not state fair use. If you're claiming fair use, then you need to explicitly state that the material is copyrighted and it's being used in a way that qualifies as fair use (just as it's necessary to do this for images). If you don't state it's copyrighted, you're claiming it's our own material and under CC-BY-SA license. Some wikias, e.g. lyrics, have a copyright page explicitly stating all lyrics are copyrighted. However, if you put a disclaimer on a page, than that disclaimer supersedes the general one, thus you have to explicitly mention copyright there.
 * You're second clause contradicts fair use. If it was fair use, why would others need "permission from The CW"? Either it's fair use for all commercial entities, like wikia, or for none. You can't argue fair use for me but not for others. If you're claiming fair use (which it isn't), replace the entire first sentence with "The dialogue is copyrighted by the CW. It will be used in a way that qualifies as fair use under US copyright law." Don't tell others to get permissions when you've failed to do so yourself.
 * What's wrong with "represents viewers' experience"? "Secondhand" doesn't make sense – secondhand is reading the wikia's plot summaries instead of watching the show. The sentence makes complete sense without "secondhand". The only reason I see for adding it is to sound like a hypothetical lawyer who thinks inserting random words in a sentence makes it sound more legal-like. Though, honestly, that entire sentence sounds like fake-legal-talk, using verbiage like "herein represents".
 * I still don't see the point of disclaiming our descriptions in the transcripts. We don't disclaim plot summaries. We don't disclaim when we write about characters (e.g. character personality sections are 100% viewer interpretation), conflicts, groups, etc. Yet, you're arguing we must disclaim our interpretations in the transcripts. You're not mentioning copyright in the disclaimer, but very concerned about making it clear that the descriptions are "viewers' secondhand experience". The only explanation I can think of is that you think the CW is more likely to sue the wikia for misrepresenting the scenes (but only in transcripts, not on other pages) instead of copyright infringement – which doesn't make sense. The CW is unlikely to sue us (unless we start uploading episodes), but if they do object to something, it'll be copyright infringement.

Here's a fair use disclaimer for the transcripts (which is false since we're not using it in a way that qualifies as fair use):
 * "This is a transcribed copy of "episode name". The episode is copyrighted by The CW and any copyrighted material is used in a way that qualifies as fair use under US copyright law. The transcript is intended for informational use only."

Here's an honest disclaimer:
 * "This is a transcribed copy of "episode name". The episode is copyrighted by The CW. This transcript is intended for informational use only."

In either cases, "The CW may request..." can be added or excluded. Adding it explicitly states we want to have a friendly relationship with the copyright owner. Excluding it says nothing.

BTW: I'm assuming the disclaimer would replace the current transcript header message (which states everything "comes directly from the episode" which contradicts the descriptions being "viewers' secondhand experience").

If you want a line about descriptions (if you think the CW is going to sue us for misrepresenting the scenes):
 * "The descriptions added to the transcript are unofficial and represent viewers' interpretation of events."

I've been explaining my issues with the proposed disclaimer and trying to give various alternatives. You seem to be fixed on using your disclaimer. Are you willing to discuss alternatives? If not, there is no point to further discussion – I oppose your disclaimer and you oppose anything different. If you are willing to discuss alternatives, then feel free to suggest alternatives or changes to any of the proposed disclaimers.