Board Thread:Character Discussion/@comment-28398720-20160530203022/@comment-11565898-20170112215329

Don’t worry, you could be respectfully disagree with me as I’m with you. It isn’t problem. -Bellamy was seen as a traitor, but I believe that Aurora sacrificed herself and told the council, Bellamy had nothing to do with Octavia being hidden. To me, it is the only explanation as to why he is still alive (which this is all speculation). Shumway sent Dax to kill Bellamy so Bellamy wouldn’t give Shumway up to Jaha and the council. Bellamy could’ve easily gotten a gun by stealing or some other means. Also, if he had obtained a gun, he could’ve threatened a higher ranking officer (like Shumway) to get the info about the Dropship. It’s all about who the council would’ve believed and it is my belief that the council would’ve believed a high ranking officer over a janitor. Btw, Raven was only caught because she made a sound when she was climbing back into the vents. Had she not made that sound, she wouldn’t have been caught.

-Your point gives Bellamy power that he didn’t have. This goes back to my point of “Who would you believe?” which I think Jaha would believe Shumway over Bellamy.



-I don’t know if Jaha “understood people’s nature” seeing as he didn’t know what Diana was up to until Kane and Abby pointed out their own suspicions. You’re right; he was Chancellor who followed the laws made up by the people and the founders. That’s why he wouldn’t pardon his son and why he wouldn’t pardon Octavia. It isn’t a bad thing that he didn’t pardon his son; it just furthers my point that he wouldn’t pardon Octavia because he is a rule follower. Would it be better if Jaha was like Abby? Of course not! Abby is stubborn and headstrong. She only became a good leader because she had Kane to balance her out with his head to her heart. However that isn’t what we are discussing. To get back on topic, Jaha wouldn’t have pardoned Octavia because it was against the law to have a 2nd child and Octavia broke the law (something I think is stupid, but this isn’t what we are talking about). Unless Bellamy had a tape of his conversation with Shumway, I don’t think Jaha would’ve believed him.



-So because it has been done in history, we should just accept that human lives mean nothing? Also, would you rather they starved all the kids in the Sky Box then? The council has to be fair in that circumstance and as we’ve stated, Jaha is a rule follower. So it wasn’t a “waste of resources”, it was human decency. (I’m sorry if that sounded rude by the way, I didn’t know how else to say it though). Sadly, Aurora’s life meant nothing as many people can learn to sow unlike the skill as I don’t know, being a doctor(like Abby, who was pardoned for using too much blood on Jaha). To the council, Aurora was an example, not a person.



<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-Oh, I am not naïve enough to believe that no one knew about the corruption on the Ark. However, no one talked about it or made it an issue, so people like Aurora were taken sickly advantage of. As for Atom being strung up, that was an example. Bellamy wanted to show his dominance to all of his followers and sadly Atom was the one who disobeyed a personal order from Bellamy. Murder is wrong, but so is a false accusation. They had no evidence, but Clarke still accused Murphy. We don’t know if Bellamy would’ve done an investigation because Clarke never gave anyone the chance. Bellamy was doing what was best for the group by keeping people afraid of the Grounders and while I still think he should’ve stood up for Murphy, I can’t cast fault on only Bellamy in that situation. I’m not sure what double standard you are talking about here, so I’ll leave you to explain.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-I don’t know what I lied about honestly, so can you please tell me? Octavia didn’t know they were going to Lincoln’s village and since she had gone a few weeks without seeing her brother, I’m guessing she wouldn’t want to leave his side. Also, it wasn’t Bellamy’s idea to go to the village, it was Finns. Finn was the one who was so desperate find Clarke, not Bellamy. Another “double standard”? I don’t know what you are talking about honestly. Finn didn’t care about anything Bellamy had to say from day one. Again, he only ever followed Clarke, so no matter what Bellamy would’ve done, Finn wouldn’t have listened or cared. “On his first mission”? Finn executed a Grounder who drew a map. He told Bellamy to leave Mel because it would take too much time. Finn wasn’t a solider, he was a desperate man set out to find someone, no matter the cost. He wasn’t listening and he stopped caring about anything that didn’t have to do with finding Clarke. There was nothing that Bellamy could’ve done.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-So now we’re blaming him for not being God? Bellamy was doing the best he could with the best he had. The others if you remember were sent to hide safely with members of the Mountain who wanted to help them. Then Bellamy went back and freed the Grounders to then discover that the Delinquents are being hunted down for their bone marrow. He went back and forth between his people and the Grounders to then find the Grounders had left him and his people in the Mountain. He only had Jasper and Monty because they were the only ones that fought to go with him. I will acknowledge that the Grounders had never won a battle against the Mountain Men, but that’s why they had the Sky people to help them. 2) The Grounders lost that battle in S1 because it was explosives against their army. If it had just been the less than 100 teens against them, then they would’ve won. 3) Again, I think you are underestimating the Grounders abilities. They have been raised to fight since they could walk. I’m willing to bet that they could’ve found a way to defend themselves against the Mountain Men if they had wanted to. Unfortunately, we will never know because they left the battle early. 4) I assume it would be easy to defeat people when they are sleeping, but that’s just me. Also, there were some who were wounded already in the Grounder army that sat outside Arkadia. How many? We don’t know.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">* You keep saying double standard and yet I have no idea what you are talking about.*

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-Bellamy didn’t want to kill the people in the Mountain'''. He wanted to save them. '''If you need evidence of that, look to his speech to Clarke in S3 where he outright states it. Bellamy (as all of the characters do) did the best he could in saving the lives of everyone(Mountain Men, Delinquents, and Grounders) in Mount Weather. Unfortunately, a lot of people decided they would rather save their own then strive for peace. Lexa betrayed the Arkadians. It was a good leadership move for her people, but the fact is she made a promise that she did not keep. Kane offered donations of bone marrow, but Cage refused. Clarke tried to talk to Dante who told her he had to do what was in the best interest of his people. Then Clarke, Bellamy, and Monty killed the people of Mount Weather. As for the 320 people in the Culling, that was S1 Bellamy being selfish. I don’t have an argument for that because it was wrong (something I have stated in my last posts). As for everything he has done being a “failure”, I don’t know if that’s true. At the end of the day, Bellamy (alongside Clarke) kept the people in Arkadia alive. Maybe they didn’t use the best tactics, but it’s easy to be the “good guy” when we aren’t put into these situations.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-Woah, who is saying that people dying and punches to the face are the same thing? I’m certainly not. My point in comparing the two actions is that both Blake siblings have trouble expressing their anger which leads them to harsh things. They are in no way the same, but rather different bad ways of expressing their negative emotions. As in her speech in 2’12, do you mean when she told Lincoln to put the kid down and when he wouldn’t answer her, she punched him? Yeah, that seems like a solid conversation to me. There were times when Octavia did try to get Lincoln to open up about his time as a Reaper, so I’ll give you that. However, just because someone doesn’t want to talk about something doesn’t mean you result to violence. I didn’t say Octavia was a bad girlfriend by the way, I just pointed out this major Blake flaw that all the Blake’s seem to possess which is they don’t know how to express anger in a positive way. Also in regards to Indra, punching someone who is already weak is a way to make them stronger? I’m not sure if I believe in that. Octavia is a somewhat bad sister, but not for this action. Do I think that she had reason to beat Bellamy up? Of course because he was indirectly responsible for Lincoln’s death. Do I think she should’ve followed through with the beating? No, because then I would have to be okay with Bellamy and Pike killing 299 Grounders. I would then have to be okay with Finn killing those people in the TonDc or the Ice Nation blowing up Mount Weather. All the acts I have named were done out of anger against an enemy, something I don’t agree with. Think, if Lexa had begun “Blood must not have blood” in Season 1, then so many lives could’ve been saved. I’m not blaming Lexa btw, I’m just making a point that anger and violence only end with more anger and violence. That’s why Bellamy was wrong to kill 299 Grounders (he spared Indra, so it wasn’t 300), why Finn was wrong, why the Ice nation was wrong, and why Octavia was wrong.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-That’s been my point (and the show’s point) though, there are no heroes. Bellamy, Clarke, and Monty were forced to kill those people because there was no other option for them. It was either they kill the occupants of the Mountain or their people died. Also, there were more than 45 of their people in the Mountain. I agree there are consequences to actions. Like Clarke deciding to leave because she couldn’t deal with what happened. Like the fact that Jasper drank his liver away and treated his friends like shit. Like Raven’s leg getting worse. Like Bellamy killing 299 Grounders and choosing to believe Pike because no one else was there to help him “save” his people. Those were all repercussions of what happened in Mount Weather. Those were all things they had to deal with, but instead of together, they all did it alone.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-Yes, they were children together, but Bellamy wasn’t a kid like Octavia. It was his responsibility to make sure that Octavia was happy and that’s what he did. I’m guessing here, but I doubt that Bellamy got to have friends or go to parties. He probably didn’t get to enjoy running around the Ark like Clarke or Jasper. He didn’t have a friendship like Raven and Finn, Clarke and Wells, or Jasper and Monty. Now that doesn’t mean that he resents his sister for any of that. I agree that he holds those moments to be precious because his mother instilled in him that family is important. Still to say that he had some sort of decent childhood would imply that Octavia had a good childhood as well. They were two kids who had too much responsibility put on their shoulders because of some stupid ass law (Yes, I did say the no 2nd kid rule was a stupid ass law). This lack of childhood is why I believe the Blake’s have so many emotional issues (but that’s just my psych class talking). For Bellamy (and Octavia), they are still angry kids who need to be shown how to express their anger in positive ways.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-When Lincoln was taken in, he wasn’t going to die. Bellamy made the speech for Kane, Sinclair, AND Lincoln once Pike said he was going to kill them.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-There is never a “right” moment. There is just a moment like the one Lexa created in S3. People were dying on both sides and it was Lexa’s wisdom and Clarke’s determination to keep her people safe that was going to end that.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-The Grounders as a people did not like Octavia simply because she was a Sky person. There were Grounders like Indra and Lincoln who accepted Octavia, but the overall theme of the Grounders was to dislike her. Now I will admit that as many of the Grounders who got to know her accepted Octavia unlike in Skaikru. However, even Octavia knows that the Grounders do not accept her as evidenced in her speech to Monty. (“I’m not Skaikru. I’m not Trikru”).

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to say about Lexa or Lincoln’s death. All I can say is that both deaths were tragic.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">*Again, what double standard are you talking about? I honestly have no idea!*

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-The Grounders weren’t his people though. Also, he had trusted Clarke, Kane, and Octavia, but the Grounders betrayed all of them when they left his people to die in Mount Weather. That betrayal extended to Mount Weather being blown up by a Grounder clan (Ice Nation). I think it’s a reasonable response to not trust the Grounders after that. I also think it’s reasonable to not want to go along with people who are asking you (once again) to trust people who have proven themselves to be untrustworthy when you gave them trust before. Now, I do not support Bellamy’s actions alongside Pike. It is never right to kill people. However, I understand the reasons behind why Bellamy did the things that he did. AGAIN, it isn’t right. I just understand.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-Was it loyal for Echo and the Ice nation to openly betray Lexa? I don’t think so. As for forgiveness, who is asking for that? I’m not asking that for him. Bellamy might be, but he also understands that he doesn’t deserve it right now (S3: “Forgiveness isn’t easy for us”). Onto the Grounder Army, let me put it like this. The Grounders have been attacking Bellamy since he got down to the Ground. He put faith in Clarke who put faith in Lexa (after Finn was sacrificed) to then end up being left on the Mountain. He trusted Echo and she betrayed him which ended with more of Skaikru dead. Bellamy went back to Arkadia to deal with all of these actions without an explanation or “justice” while the people who continued to hurt his people walked free. So, I ask, would you trust a grounder army after all that? Would you welcome Grounders with open arms when you had been betrayed by them so many times? I’m not saying that Skaikru is innocent in all this, but that you understand why Bellamy did what he did. Also, I am still failing to see the “double standard” you keep bringing up. I don’t think Bellamy is a victim or a hero. However, I also don’t believe he is the villain. I try to see both sides of the situation so that I become better is all.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-Pike told Bellamy to prove that he was still on Pikes side when he found him. So I’m not sure where you are getting this entire “Pike on Bellamy affection” from. As for Bellamy not believing people would push him away, I don’t think that’s true either. Bellamy knew the risks when he began to follow Pike. That’s why he (in a very douchy way) told Octavia to stop dressing like a Grounder. Octavia has been pushing Bellamy away since S1, so I would think he would expect that by now. I don’t think he expected himself to go as far as he did though. To me this is obvious when he goes to Pike and tells him that killing the 299 Grounders was a mistake. Or when he made that speech to Pike about having to live with what he had done. I don’t know if Bellamy ever expected himself to become that angry person he was.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-I don’t know why people compare these two events as if they are similar. By doing this, you somewhat absolve Bellamy of guilt because comparing the two events implies that Bellamy wasn’t of sound mind. Bellamy was angry; it is as simple as that. He was tired of his people dying and nothing being done. Yes, Lexa made the declaration of war against Ice nation in front of Bellamy, but she also told Clarke she was going to help Skaikru out of Mount Weather and we both know how that turned out.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">-If you dislike all the main characters, why do you watch the show? Honestly, I’m not critiquing you, I just want to know. I don’t like these characters because they do these bad things. I like these characters because they are human and like humans, they fuck up. I am willing to bet if we were in their positions, many of us would do similar things. The thing is though is that we aren’t, so we have to do the next thing which is to understand them. They’re explanations and logical reasons for why each character does the things that they do just like they’re reasons we do the things that we do.

<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;line-height:115%;font-family: "TimesNewRoman","serif"">- As for the bad guy notion, Octavia has been deemed “dark” because she actively wants destruction at this point. Bellamy was described as “dark” when he followed Pike and killed those Grounders because he was doing the same thing. Pike wanted hatred and fear to keep his power high. Cage and Dante let their pride kill their people. Ramsay and Negan are sociopaths who wreak havoc not because they need to, but because they want to. That is why they are antagonists instead of anti-heroes.