Board Thread:General Discussion/@comment-29929311-20160912190346/@comment-99.195.148.98-20170106060252

I'm not at all offended that you disagree with my view. This is a place for discussion and I welcome all viewpoints. Me pointing out the thread title to you, wasn't to tell you this was a Bellarke only zone. It was me reminding you that, yes, I'm talking about Bellarke (in a positive way because I ship them) because that is the point of the thread. I thought you might need to be reminded since you lashed out with "YOU ship Bellarke" (yes...is that a problem?) and then "Bellamy isn't the be all end all of the show, despite the fact that some of you people clearly only watch for a stupid ship that is in your head etc."

So since, according to you, Bellarke is stupid and is all in my head, does that mean I can't discuss it here? This thread is about a couple, and you devolved what could've been a real discussion into pointing fingers at the shippers whom you obviously don't like.

You don't like Bellarke? You want to talk about why? Go for it. But telling me it's stupid and accusing me of not appreciating the show, all because I like Bellarke, that's just unnecessary. And me saying, "what was the plot again?" was me being sarcastic about how I hear from Lexa fans that just because I like Bellarke, and want to talk about them, I don't like the show (which you proved at the end of your post by stating just that). So obviously I ​wasn't wrong there.

I don't think I was disrespectful at all considering you literally just called something I like stupid??

I love it too, which is why we're both here. This is a TV show, so I try to be realistic so that I'm not completely blindsided by cancellation. And since I saw in another thread here, everyone hoping the show ends after this season because it's just so awful​, I thought it'd be better to explain that just because I'm excited and positive about Bellarke, that doesn't mean I'm not realistic about how the show's doing (me covering my bases again for always being told how crazy I am for, heaven forbid, hoping this show has more than 4 seasons).

I'm happy that you loved Lexa and sorry that you lost her, but it's still not a reason to jump on someone who talks about why they like Bellarke. Which has nothing to do with Lexa/Clexa and tends to cause fights instead of discussion when they're brought up together. But let's try.

When it comes to the chemistry, it's in the eye of the beholder, so, while you don't see anything between Clarke and Bellamy, I saw nothing between Clarke and Lexa. It felt forced to me, JRoth parading around this wlw couple because he was so proud of himself, which turned out to be the truth (the JRoth part). It didn't help that I felt like ADC was so wooden in the role. I've never seen her in anything else, so I don't know if it was just her​ or how she decided to portray this specific character. And while I understand that the whole point of Lexa's character was that she was closed off, refusing to acknowledge her feelings, it made it very hard to see anything there at all. Also, I'm going to be totally honest with you, as you are a HUGE Lexa fan, I am a HUGE Raven fan, and I could never ​look at Lexa the same way again after she tortured her for, what turned out to be, absolutely nothing. Leaving everyone in MW to die didn't help how I viewed her. She was always an antagonist to me. A foil to Clarke and all of the Arkers, is probably more acurate.

When it comes to the actors, I think you're kind of missing my point (maybe not, tell me if I'm wrong). I don't care​ what they say. As far as I'm concerned, the only thing unprofessional about that Eliza interview was the fact that she used the word shit. I get Aussie's curse a lot, but she's an adult who's capable of controlling herself. That being said, omg if I got asked about ships as much as that poor woman does, I'd be having a total meltdown (which is why I just don't trust these actors). But if she wants to talk about how she loves Clexa and hates Bellarke, oh my goodness, do it​. She's entitled to her opinon, which doesn't change a thing for me. Same with Bob, who seems to just skirt around the issue more than anything. What I do hate is how like 90% of the questions they get are about ships and not the show. I'm tired of always talking about Clexa, Bellarke and Braven. I know they can't talk about anything that hasn't aired, but I want them to talk about their ​​character's backgrounds and internal feelings we don't get to see. Because when they do, that stuff is gold​.

I judged you because you used the word toxic to describe a fake relationship without giving any reason as to why. That's harmful, not to mention disrespectful if you're only using it to prove a ridiculous point (my ship is better than yours). I had no way of knowing you actually had ​reasons since you didn't state them. Me seeing it in other places doesn't always mean it's the same perspective as you, or that they have a persepective at all. It means it's an easy, and essentially gross, ​thing to say (when there are people actually suffering) for shippers who want to tear each other's ships down, and are too insensitive to notice what they're doing is wrong.

Ok, onto Bellamy. He never seems numb to me, quite the opposite, he seems more ruled by his emotions, which is something I can more relate to than supressing them. Let's talk about how I view season 1 Bellamy (You may or may not agree with it, but that's the fun in talking about it, seeing what others think). My belief is "bad boy" Bellamy was as fake as fake could be. He came down to protect his sister (and himself) and he knew immediately what he had to do, control the situation. And oh man, did he go about it the wrong way. Based on flashbacks, we know he saw some of the worst of the Guard (and men in general), using his mother when they knew she was desperate. He hated this guy (and I'm just gonna go ahead and assume it was more than one since he too joined the Guard later). But he saw how they were able to take control. Basically by being huge jerks.

He basically acted like how he saw the only men in his life act, and he took control. His sexual escapades really prove this out to me because sex (as he saw with his mother) is a form of control. And not just with the girls he was sleeping with, but the guys who all saw​ what he was doing. Remember Jasper talking to Monty about Harper being "low hanging fruit"? Where do you think he got that idea? He got cocky after Bellamy took him to the bridge, and suddenly was acting like a huge jerk as well. These are all young and impressionable teens, and Bellamy absolutely took advantage. Which was wrong, but something he was a length he ewas willing to go for himself and the person he felt responsible for.

But one thing I know about hiding your true self is, you can't do it forever, and neither could Bellamy. We see glimpses of it with Charlotte, and then again when he was choosing whether or not to hang Murphy. Of course we know he chose to make the crowd happy and keep his control (this is later paralleled when he gives his life for Jasper, being hung himself instead). But we really see it in 1.08, the episode I began shipping Bellarke, since this is when we really ​see Bellamy's character. His walls come down for Clarke, and he shows her just how vulnerable he really is. And I don't mean that in a Romance Novel "oh my, I'm swooning" sort of way, but how un​put together he really was, and just how much he was faking all this bravado.

Most of all, that talk by the tree revealed just how much this guy hates ​himself, and that is something that plays a huge part in his character and all future decisions he makes. He wasn't torturing people for fun, but he's also not some cute little bunny who deserves hugs. He knew what he was doing when he did it, and he chose to do it​. He absolutely holds responsiblity for everything that went down in the early days of camp, including the whole Murphy, Charlotte, Wells fiasco. But he did what he thought he had to do, and when it came to the control part of it, I think he liked it. How could he not? He had no control on the Ark, his life was not his own, essentially living for someone else. But when people actually ended up getting hurt or dying, it's shortsighted to say he liked ​that. He was a mess during his talk with Clarke, and that wasn't just about the Culling (that was just the tipping point). He was ashamed for what he'd become and he all but admitted that to her.

Ok, season 3 Bellamy. Season 3 was just not good as a whole. The pacing was awful and everything was so rushed. The Bellamy/Pike story in particular seemed to suffer most from this. But, to me, Bellamy's actions make sense in their own way. Of course they weren't right​, but I don't see them as being from the left field as many others do. You say he turned his back on everyone, but I don't think that could be further from the truth.

Don't think about how you've seen the show until that point, because that's way ​more knowledge than Bellamy has. He doesn't see Lexa and her decisions, he doesn't see how precarious her position is and how it's not just her ​that's to blame for all Grounders and their choices. At that point, the only positive interactions Bellamy's had with Grounders is Lincoln and Indra. It's no accident at all that he was literally just screwed over by Echo, then with what went down at MW in season 2, and all ​of season 1. He doesn't have a whole lot of reason to like or trust Grounders.

Bellamy's emotional state is also not so good right then. He feels responsible for being duped by Echo and the deaths that resulted from it, Clarke has essentially "left him" again, and he's just found out his sister may be leaving too, and along with all that, he's tyring to hide the pain of what went down at MW the first time. This is all weighing on him heavily. Are they excuses? Nope. He's a sane adult, and all his decisions are his own. But this is an explanation of why ​it was so easy for Pike to manipulate him. All of this guilt, angst, and sadness made him easy pickings and Pike knew it.

The slaughter of the Grounders. These people were not ​innocent. These were Trikru, the same people who thought it was okay to slaughter teens who'd done nothing more than cross a border they didn't know about and accidentally burn down a village which Clarke told Anya was an accident, though they'd attacked long before that. These people have blood on there hands, innocent Arker blood. And that's how Bellamy rightfully sees them. He doesn't trust them. And why should he? Because Lexa promised? What good is that to him after MW? This army was there to protect them? In a way, yes. But they were also essentially keeping the Arkers as prisoners. All Pike and Bellamy had to do was wait for Lexa to show up with Clarke, then I think ​something could've been worked out. But they didn't know Lexa was coming, and they believed it was only a matter of time before this army right outside their gates attacked.

Bellamy didn't want to kill these people, he wanted to protect his own, and he wrongly thought this was the way to go about it. He knew it was reprehensible but he did it because, like the jerk from season 1, he was willing to do what he thought was necessary to protect the people he felt responsible for. Saying he only spared Indra for Octavia, and that he showed no mercy, is also incorrect IMO. Indra herself says he was the one who wanted to spared the wounded. That had nothing to do with Octavia. Also, I don't think Bellamy is racist but xenophobic. He doesn't show predjudice or hate, but fear and mistrust. And while I definitely think he shares some of the blame for what happened to Lincoln, saying that he didn't try to intervene is false. He tried, Octavia rightly didn't trust him, chaining him up, therefore keeping him from being able to help.

I don't think this is a "dark side" to him. I think he's an emotinonal, complex character who needs to learn to control some of that emotion. And I think this whole situation has been eye-opening enough for him to change and develop from it. I think this is also one of the reasons why I see Bellarke being so good together, platonic or otherwise. They balance each other out. They don't need ​each other, but the help each other, they're good ​for each other. Trusting, believing and putting faith in each other. How is that toxic?

So, I'm going to end this with one last argument because this is already ridiculously long (and don't apologize for your length, I enjoyed reading what you thought and I'd love to read more) but if you want my thoughts on the rest of your post just ask.

Alright so, I really dislike this idea that if Clarke ends up with someone else she's settling. I know Lexa meant a lot to you, and I know she meant even more to Clarke, and you never forget your first love (because I just straight up don't believe she was in love with Finn), but when you fall in love again it's not settling. Because that's not how love works. Love is open, and for someone like Clarke especially who seems to love so easily, looking past all sorts of things, I don't think she'd be rating who she loves more. Love is love. I'm sure it'll feel different, one was a younger kind of love that burned bright and was monumental to her and who she's become, but if she truly falls in love again that doesn't mean it'll be less. I definintley wouldn't want it to be. It doesn't have to seem less to prop up Clexa. Clexa was already special, and to Clarke it always will be. That doesn't mean nothing will ever touch her the same way. That's honestly just too sad to think about. And I don't wish that on Clarke who deserves the world tbh.